Comments on: FAA’s long-standing policy against thru the fence agreements booed at Oshkosh http://livingwithyourplane.com/2009/07/31/faa%e2%80%99s-long-standing-policy-against-thru-the-fence-agreements-booed-at-oshkosh/ The nation's source for residential airparks Sun, 05 Sep 2010 04:11:26 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.3 hourly 1 By: Jeff http://livingwithyourplane.com/2009/07/31/faa%e2%80%99s-long-standing-policy-against-thru-the-fence-agreements-booed-at-oshkosh/comment-page-1/#comment-1124 Jeff Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:22:56 +0000 http://livingwithyourplane.com/?p=959#comment-1124 Given the current administrations comments since taking office, I do not believe any one can talk sense into them. It is apparent that they have decided private aviators are "rich" and must be taken down a notch, taxed and regulated into oblivion. It appears this is punishment for being "haves" insted of "have nots". :-( Given the current administrations comments since taking office, I do not believe any one can talk sense into them. It is apparent that they have decided private aviators are “rich” and must be taken down a notch, taxed and regulated into oblivion. It appears this is punishment for being “haves” insted of “have nots”. :-(

]]> By: Ben Sclair http://livingwithyourplane.com/2009/07/31/faa%e2%80%99s-long-standing-policy-against-thru-the-fence-agreements-booed-at-oshkosh/comment-page-1/#comment-1095 Ben Sclair Thu, 06 Aug 2009 15:50:25 +0000 http://livingwithyourplane.com/?p=959#comment-1095 Mack, Great thinking. Living With Your Plane is willing to help in whatever way the TTF RA's need and we are able to provide. I will see if there is a way to ID the 50 airparks (as you mention) that will most be affected by this FAA's position. Coordination of this group is paramount. If you have a list, please forward it to me at ben@generalaviationnews.com. Ben Mack,

Great thinking. Living With Your Plane is willing to help in whatever way the TTF RA’s need and we are able to provide. I will see if there is a way to ID the 50 airparks (as you mention) that will most be affected by this FAA’s position. Coordination of this group is paramount. If you have a list, please forward it to me at ben@generalaviationnews.com.

Ben

]]> By: Mack McKinney http://livingwithyourplane.com/2009/07/31/faa%e2%80%99s-long-standing-policy-against-thru-the-fence-agreements-booed-at-oshkosh/comment-page-1/#comment-1094 Mack McKinney Thu, 06 Aug 2009 15:35:00 +0000 http://livingwithyourplane.com/?p=959#comment-1094 Fellow Airpark Residents Across the US, The bottom line is this: Unless we band together across the country and coordinate a coherent, unemotional, reasoned defense against the FAA's position on TTF operations, with appropriate actions at the Federal level, most (if not all TTF) residential airparks are going to be closed one-by-one. Appealing to reason won't work. The FAA has shown time after time that the positions it takes do not have to make sense to the public, do not have to be in concert with previous decisions it has made, and do not need to be congruent with the needs of local/state governments. Examples are legion. The FAA often doesn't even take counsel from the Federal NTSB and has gone to court against them and won! The FAA apparently sees the elimination of TTF RA's as a way to solve three perennial problems: 1)the airport noise issue (fewer nearby houses = fewer noise complaints), 2) the "airpark people don't pay their share" problem and 3) the Congressional complaint that the FAA isn't controlling development near airports. The AOPA can help us but, with only 50 airparks immediately affected, I cannot see AOPA "falling on their sword" over this issue. Same for EAA. So it will be up to us airpark residents. If we do not want to be picked off one-by-one, we need to get our collective act together, get a strategy in place, get some serious legal advice, and get moving on this. Time is not on our side and allowing this to go to Federal court is a poor strategy - - - we are almost certainly going to lose to the USG. We need to nip this thing now. Is "Living With Your Plane" the right organization to lead the charge on this or do we need to form some other organization/alliance? Very concerned, Mack Fellow Airpark Residents Across the US,
The bottom line is this: Unless we band together across the country and coordinate a coherent, unemotional, reasoned defense against the FAA’s position on TTF operations, with appropriate actions at the Federal level, most (if not all TTF) residential airparks are going to be closed one-by-one. Appealing to reason won’t work. The FAA has shown time after time that the positions it takes do not have to make sense to the public, do not have to be in concert with previous decisions it has made, and do not need to be congruent with the needs of local/state governments. Examples are legion. The FAA often doesn’t even take counsel from the Federal NTSB and has gone to court against them and won! The FAA apparently sees the elimination of TTF RA’s as a way to solve three perennial problems: 1)the airport noise issue (fewer nearby houses = fewer noise complaints), 2) the “airpark people don’t pay their share” problem and 3) the Congressional complaint that the FAA isn’t controlling development near airports. The AOPA can help us but, with only 50 airparks immediately affected, I cannot see AOPA “falling on their sword” over this issue. Same for EAA. So it will be up to us airpark residents. If we do not want to be picked off one-by-one, we need to get our collective act together, get a strategy in place, get some serious legal advice, and get moving on this. Time is not on our side and allowing this to go to Federal court is a poor strategy – - – we are almost certainly going to lose to the USG. We need to nip this thing now. Is “Living With Your Plane” the right organization to lead the charge on this or do we need to form some other organization/alliance?
Very concerned,
Mack

]]> By: Dave Sclair http://livingwithyourplane.com/2009/07/31/faa%e2%80%99s-long-standing-policy-against-thru-the-fence-agreements-booed-at-oshkosh/comment-page-1/#comment-1061 Dave Sclair Mon, 03 Aug 2009 02:46:01 +0000 http://livingwithyourplane.com/?p=959#comment-1061 Jason, You are correct that we shouldn't assume everyone knows all terms, even though we've written about it many times. A Thru The fence agreement is something an airport executes with parties on adjoining property who want to use the runway and other airport properties. Usually there is a fee paid by the off airport homes or businesses for the privilege of using the field. In many cases, the "fence" is imaginary, but the arrangement is still referred to as Thru The Fence (often abbreviated as TTF). Dave Jason,

You are correct that we shouldn’t assume everyone knows all terms, even though we’ve written about it many times.

A Thru The fence agreement is something an airport executes with parties on adjoining property who want to use the runway and other airport properties. Usually there is a fee paid by the off airport homes or businesses for the privilege of using the field. In many cases, the “fence” is imaginary, but the arrangement is still referred to as Thru The Fence (often abbreviated as TTF).

Dave

]]> By: Jason http://livingwithyourplane.com/2009/07/31/faa%e2%80%99s-long-standing-policy-against-thru-the-fence-agreements-booed-at-oshkosh/comment-page-1/#comment-1059 Jason Sat, 01 Aug 2009 18:31:32 +0000 http://livingwithyourplane.com/?p=959#comment-1059 It might be a useful writing tactic if you explained what a "through the fence agreement is" It might be a useful writing tactic if you explained what a “through the fence agreement is”

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